Let Get This Started Again We re Yooo

Today's guest is Dr. Francis Yoo. Listen in every bit he discusses career happiness, burnout and being true to oneself!

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Today'southward Guest

Francis Yoo, DO

Dr. Francis Yoo, D.O. is a born-and-raised New Yorker. He received his BA in Philosophy and Mathematics from NYU and his DO medical degree from NYCOM. He completed a combined four year residency training program in Family unit Medicine and Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine / Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine. He as well received training in medical acupuncture, clinical homeopathy, and hundreds of hours of CME in Osteopathic Manipulation.

He is board certified in Family Medicine, Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine / Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine, Integrative Medicine and has additional qualifications in Pain Medicine. He is a Diplomate of the American Lath of Medical Acupuncture and of the Center of Didactics and Development of Clinical Homeopathy. He besides has education in Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Functional Medicine, and Lifestyle Medicine.

 Francis has spent 5 years in corporate clinical medicine and in GME every bit an associate plan director or program director. He has taught and precepted medical students on clinical rotations as well equally residents from multiple residency programs in clinical and didactic settings.

Dr. Yoo is a certified Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Practitioner, is a Lean Six Sigma Green Belt, completed the Enneagram Institute's teaching curriculum, and graduated from the altMBA program. He has way besides many books with topics ranging from finance/business to philosophy (eastern, western, and more) with some to Japanese manga and calorie-free novels here and at that place. His interests include Jungian Analytic Psychology and dream assay, credit card miles/points, Japanese anime and function-playing games, pizza, sushi, and playing the electric guitar with a lot of distortion.

He has recently published a book "Physician Freedom: Living Your Authentic Physician Life" every bit a companion to his coaching / consulting program and is currently writing his second book "Covid Contemplations for self-awareness and personal development."

Email: [e-mail protected]
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Key Takeaways

• Dr. Yoo feels that many early career physicians are dissatisfied due to the feeling of "this is not what I signed up for."
• Francis feels that the excess ruby-red tape and bureaucracy put a heavy burden on physicians.
• He emphasizes that people choose medicine in order to make an impact on people'south lives.
• Francis discusses that physicians demand to detect what is right for them professionally and leverage their skills and interests.

"Then the answer is no, I am not happy where I am right now but that's why I am moving toward a life where I know I volition exist happy."

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Disclaimer

All opinions expressed by the guest in this episode are solely the guest'due south opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Andrew Tisser Do, Talk2MeDoc LLC, or any affiliates thereof. The guest'south opinions are based upon information he considers reliable, just Andrew Tisser DO, Talk2MeDoc LLC, nor any affiliates thereof warrant its completeness or accuracy. The guest, Andrew Tisser Do, Talk2MeDoc LLC, or any affiliates thereof are not under any obligation to update or correct any information provided in this episode. The guest's statements and opinions are bailiwick to change without observe.

Andrew Tisser 0:01
Dr. Francis, Yoo Welcome to the Talk2MeDoc podcast.

Francis Yoo 0:14
How-do-you-do, thank you for having me, Andrew.

Andrew Tisser 0:17
Absolutely. Well, I recorded a very dainty bio that you provided to me for the listeners already. But in your own words, could you give us a brief synopsis of who yous are, what you do and what your part is in healthcare?

Francis Yoo 0:thirty
Yeah. So right now I'm employed in a infirmary total time doing corporate clinical medicine insurance company, yada yada all that mostly do chief intendance and outpatient setting. work with students residents, also plan manager for 1 of the residency program programs at a hospital. So administrative work JME work seeing patients on my own precepting residents Yeah, I'one thousand sure they do. They're things I've done before. Like, I was the vice chair of the Family Medicine Department at our hospital and a lot of dissimilar things. Merely right now, I'k generally transitioning out actually, of my corporate clinical medicine career, and I'one thousand transitioning to do working on my individual practice and doing non clinical piece of work.

Andrew Tisser 1:28
Very absurd. And so you certainly wear a lot of hats. Yeah. And I hear you only wrote a book. What is that about?

Francis Yoo 1:37
Yeah, and so information technology was nigh a combination of ideas I've had for the past, I don't know almost two decades, I was always into philosophy, philosophy, especially existential philosophy. ever been into books, courses and waste to personal development. about myself because as you, as y'all know, doctors aren't taught to how to exist human in a way they're taught to, to do this and do that. Nosotros're non taught to, you know, how to run a exercise how to personal development and uphold our values and all that.

So I was always into sort of personal evolution. And I saw this equally an opportunity, especially for myself, to exist caught in a way my journeying and to share with others show that nosotros accept to be responsible for our journeys in a way, and we can't really, oh, nosotros can, just nosotros shouldn't live a life that other people want u.s. to live. We really have to live the life we want to alive. It'south not like the end of the twenty-four hours. We living our ain lives. So the idea backside the book is to encourage physicians to find the Life that'south authentic for them.

And now that'due south kind of hard because our education system is all about making us exchangeable replaceable. And let'due south say a Board Certified radiologist, to the hospital doesn't like that person. They Oh, we don't similar y'all. And then nosotros'll find another force certified radiologist just means that you take the aforementioned qualifications. So, the thought behind that book, it'south called position liberty, living your authentic position life. Information technology's actually, it's a manual. It's partly inspiration, but also a practical way to figure out what it is that the reader wants to do with their life professionally and personally.

Andrew Tisser 3:44
Yeah, that'south, I mean, certainly no small feat to write a book. So congratulations on that. Give thanks you. Thank yous. I haven't read information technology even so. Just I it's on the docket. Especially I think in these trying times, physicians are made money more enlightened of their of their mortality in a way and how susceptible nosotros are to factors aren't sat around. And so it'southward important that we can live our best life.

So thank you for writing that book. I you know this this bear witness focuses on a few things, communication inside healthcare and at present with more than of a focus on the healthcare worker experience and early career medico exhaustion, I think you lot're especially interesting guests to have on the show because you are both an early on career physician and yous're in a position where you are a mentor to residents and younger physicians. So do you could you lot comment on some of the early on burnout we're seeing in both our residents and our early career attendings?

Unknown Speaker 4:54
Then can yous echo that last part?

Andrew Tisser 4:56
Yeah, so I'm saying the now that nosotros're seeing a lot more than More exhaustion and dissatisfaction within both our residents and our early career attendings as well, a person who is both an early career physician and someone who mentors residents. Can you lot comment on some of the factors leading to that?

Francis Yoo five:16
Yeah, aye, I call up the major item is that this isn't quite what we signed up for. And so I just happened to be looking at my personal statements for my medical schoolhouse and residency as I was, yous know, doing applications, and no way that I say, my dream job is to exist talking to insurance companies, doing prior authorizations, going through loopholes and trying to get what's proficient for my patient by talking with other people.

As well my patients, focusing on the computer, doing all these things, just a reality People go into medicine wants to make an bear upon, whether directly or indirectly to patients with a health care organization, and no one signs upwardly for I want to have grade traumatic stress disorder, that's kind of what I call it. People don't sign upwardly and say, I want to become a doc.

So I can become through a lot of blood-red tape and things like that. And I think compared to the more veteran physicians who have been around, they had a transition from a one-time framework order framework to a newer framework. But at present residents and early career positions are realizing quickly, this isn't what I signed up for. We signed up for pay the states our intellect, our desire to know science and the arts and help people and we didn't sign up for to have to get through multiple layers. To get do that

Andrew Tisser 7:02
so what do we practise near information technology Francis?

Francis Yoo 7:05
Wow that is an first-class question. And so And so I think there are I've realized there are three answers people have given number ane is to change a organisation which it'southward a very daunting task Anna, I know you are in the various Facebook groups has been part of trying to modify that and talking with the powers that be and the government to practice that. Just information technology can be daunting and add that to a total days and total calendar week of work and it'south you really take to exist passionate about something y'all have the desire to become done.

And the the other things I've seen is that hospitals and an ACGME , what they're trying to do is say, Oh, yous have to provide health, you have to provide These things to positions and you see these, I don't know what information technology is block cookies meditation sessions, which I'yard not maxim they're a bad thing merely in reality, really the point of that is to retain the position it's to say, we desire you lot to exist well then that you can stay with us. I

It'due south non it'southward the does an ulterior motive, maybe an ulterior motive, that's an additional motive to go on the position so they don't have to find someone to replace them. And the 3rd thing I have seen is that people offer unlike options, let'south say a non clinical career or resources to practice this or that which is again, groovy. Just for for me, and the reason that I wrote the book is to tell people, there are so many options and at that place are and then many things that need to be washed has to be washed. I medico, even a small group of physicians can't do everything.

What I believe is people who really, actually desire to practice clinical medicine should the clinical medicine, people who don't want to do clinical, clinical medicine should do something else. I think the generally, at to the lowest degree myself, I don't want to be taken intendance of, by a doctor who doesn't want exercise clinical medicine. And I think if all physicians constitute the place, the career, the life that actually makes sense to them, all fall into place, in a way. So it's better than what we should practice. I retrieve it's a more of a, what is what we call back our life's work should be.

There are physicians who are actually, actually into getting things moving in the government making changes with trying to brand changes about medical school tuition, and you're involved in that y'all're involved in that as well. And honestly, that's Non my what I desire to do in my life not that I don't support that those movements, just every every position should focus on what they love to do, how they want to back up a healthcare organisation and their patients and only to leverage everything that they take interest skills, education training, to make a change that fits what is that their skill set up and the interests?

Andrew Tisser 10:27
Well, what exercise you say to someone Francis that says he will I detest this, you know, I hate medicine. Merely I don't have any other interests or I don't I don't know what to practise. Y'all know, this is all I know. And, and this is all you know, I'g stuck in this system. What do I do?

Francis Yoo 10:45
Yeah, then I definitely heard that. In my facebook grouping, I wanted the questions to get in, or I like to know is that what are your skills and interests outside of medicine? And yeah, near half the people say they accept certain interests. And but at that place are some that say I have no other skills, no other interests exterior of medicine. And I think that'south one of the faults of the education and the training system is that they don't teach physicians to know themselves.

I tin guarantee they're every position, every person have things they're interested in. It'south just a matter of practicing exercises equally doing things that let you become more aware of yourself. I think one of the great exercises that I've heard is, allow'southward say yous had three extra hours, on a weekend y'all're off. You don't have to work. In fact, you don't have peradventure you don't, y'all don't have you don't even take net admission. What would you lot do in those three hours as well eating, sleeping and things like that? I retrieve the mode we ask the question can assist people figure out what it is that they're interested in.

And that is partly what I do in, in my work as a charabanc and consultant is to actually draw out the physicians interests, their purpose, their vision, and their values. Its its people have them it'south but sometimes they need a niggling poll, kinda similar Kyle, Socrates. The philosopher, asked questions to have the person he's talking to, to reveal things about what'southward going on, as opposed to telling people this is this, you're wrong. You have skills and interest, what are you talking virtually, which may help but in the end, it'southward actually near from the inside out and realizing that we're we're people positions that people and we have things that we're called to do in life.

Andrew Tisser 12:59
And those are Great points, I recollect honestly, I think to say, and I hear it all the time myself is I don't have any other interests. And I, I recollect that'due south part of the brainwashing of our medical education to some degree. Yeah. Merely I think that'southward nonsense, correct. I mean, you y'all had interests in when y'all were in high school and when you were in college and medicine, y'all know, medicine is my life is, is an cool notion. I think y'all tin can dearest your job, but it's still your chore. Right.

Francis Yoo thirteen:28
I think some other style to look at it is during your chore, what are the things you're fatigued to? Are yous fatigued to the diagnosis part? Are you are you lot attracted to the finding patterns? Are you attracted to the human connection? Are yous interested in the workflow? Are you interested in how the nurses and physicians and other staff communicate? So even during the bodily work Bay, there are things that everyone gravitates towards. And then I think that'south some other way to find interests. side of medicine is simply, it'due south done in a medicine environs. Sure.

Andrew Tisser fourteen:05
I mean, I think early in my journey, it was more nigh like, Oh, I gotta leave of this. I got to try this, try that. Try it, you lot know, like trying a meg things, but that was just trying to escape rather than running towards something that I actually enjoyed. And that doesn't. That doesn't work, you know? I mean, I agree with trying different things. But I think if yous're simply trying to run away from medicine, instead of knowing what what interests you and what, what yous actually bask, you're non gonna get very far. And I think that'south kind of your whole philosophy and programme.

Yep. Yep, I empathize it. So, you know, back to the the the issue of communication in medicine. Practice you think that that poor, you lot know, we see a lot of poor communication within the team itself between the docs and nurses and texts and things similar that. Do you think that is a cause of the burnout crisis, or is that a downstream consequence? have burnt out clinicians.

Francis Yoo 15:06
we've always had advice bug. People like to speak in different ways. I occasionally suspension out with metaphors or analogies. Some people adopt straightforward, A to Z discussions. But really, people have been like that for years. Information technology'south non as if, in the past 10 2030 years, we've invented new psychological means of perceiving and giving information. Yes, nosotros have electronic mail and phones and things like that. But reality in the end, it's just verbal or written advice, which we've had for a decent corporeality of fourth dimension.

What I think it's the gets in the middle of the communication is that there are so many more Things to communicate. There are more things to say more things to report, more things more red record to communicate virtually more eyes to dot more T'southward to cross. And and then just because you lot have and so much to practise and talk about that certain things get lost. Or now you need to hire someone else whose specialty is working on communication, or y'all need to hire someone whose job is it, and just the more than people you have on the team, it'south just the layers of communication and the permutations of who talks to whom. That merely increases. Not to say that in that location aren't benefits of the arrangement, but it makes things more than fatigued out and makes barriers to communication matter. That'south the 1 I'g trying to say in that location's so many barriers to communication and that merely takes a price on people.

Andrew Tisser 17:00
I concord with that. That'southward a good point. Do you so loaded question, Francis, are you lot professionally happy right at present?

Francis Yoo 17:08
Yeah, so that's a very good question. I really like this question. It'due south, the technical answer is no. It's because, uh, my current work. There are things I similar about it. But the things I don't like well-nigh it are more than the things I like most it. So as I've said before, I see patients in a kind of a corporate clinical medicine scenario, and I'm a Program Director and things similar that. So there are things I similar about it, but I don't see myself doing this long term.

I don't see myself thirty-twoscore years beingness in this kind of role, and it's because I'chiliad not entirely happy doing these things. But in a way, for me, what's more important is that I know that I'g not happy. And I know that I want to brand changes and move forward in life to become happy. I think a lot of people don't realize they're unhappy. And furthermore, actually, maybe fifty-fifty worse, there are people who know they're not happy professionally, merely say, oh, I've been in this piece of work or this so much residency training, or I've been working here for 20 years, and it'south kind of stuck here. And yeah, it'due south too late to brand whatever changes, things like that. So no, the answer is no, I'thou not happy where I am right now. But that's why I'thou moving towards a life where I know I will be more than happy.

Andrew Tisser eighteen:45
Aye, that's a great point. I think that I've been doing this forever. I know nothing else is garbage. Honestly. Yes. You got one life to live right. Yep. All right. Well, let's shift the show a footling scrap to go to know you a little bit more. I know you're a big reader, but let's requite besides your own book, which nosotros will definitely be linking to, if you could requite the readers maybe your peak elevation book e'er and a book recommendation of any genre.

Francis Yoo 19:17
Yes, so I'yard going to cheat a little bit and say more one volume. That is a okay. So I've always been into the more fantastical, or maybe a science fiction and things, books of that. Of those genres. And recently, I've been nigh of the fiction books I've been reading are English translations of Japanese series. And one of the books I actually like it's chosen Log Horizon. And I won't become into too much detail just these People who are playing this cyberspace game are suddenly forced into the game.

And then now they're in their, their bodies that they use in the game. And now they have to attempt to figure out this human relationships, how the world works, and information technology brings up a lot of ethical and philosophical questions. And I call up in full general, I like annihilation that actually asks questions nearly the human nature and merely the nature of things. And I think I'll answer the second question in a combination here. So information technology's a book I recommend, called health care communication, using personality type.

So I am a Myers Briggs Type Indicator, certified practitioner and so a lot of u.s.a. all about how people prefer different means to do things how some people adopt to write some people prefer to talk etc. And this is a book that helped me too. realize some people like information in a different way. Some people think more value based Some people think more logically. And I retrieve it's a good book for information technology'south relatively short and it's information technology'southward a definitely something I recommend.

The other book I recommend is called quitting by design. It's really by a position. And this position has Dr. Lynn Marie morskie. And she quit a lot of different things, educational pursuits, jobs, careers, and it'south a book almost. It's a book made to help physicians quit. And non merely but leave your life situation and get somewhere else tomorrow. Information technology'southward virtually figuring out what works for you and what needs to exit from your life or what aspects of your life you need to alive. And I think that would exist helpful for those that are contemplating changes in their life. And yeah, so those are my 2 book recommendations.

Andrew Tisser 22:07
Great. Yes. I've been meaning to read quitting by design for a while now. I've heard her talk on a few podcasts and that's been on the on the to read list. I gotta go get going on that i. And then what practice you like to practice for fun?

Francis Yoo 22:23
Yeah, so definitely reading. I've perennially since my late teens e'er been interested in philosophy. So really, anything that I'm interested in, has a some sort of philosophical twist. Only I besides do bask playing the guitar. I prefer electrical guitar, a lot of heavy distortion, and all that if people say what kind of music I similar to play, simply honestly, I just exercise information technology around and play whatever I desire to play could exist something moves inspired, are or heavy. Metal inspired or information technology can merely exist been folk music inspired.

I similar I like to tinker around and combine different bang that'southward the play around that'due south yous know figure out something new and the speak cited by something interesting going on. Let's come across what else I do. I do watch a lot of Television receiver actually not cable though. I'm not the Netflix Hulu kind of person. I'thou more of a Crunchyroll Japanese animation type of person. I'thousand a washed up growing shows like Dragon Ball and things like that since I was 3 years onetime. So information technology'south just a part of my, my growing upward equally it were, and then I could probably speak a lot nearly that but that could exist a whole different episode.

Andrew Tisser 23:55
Great. I do. Let'south run across. So if you can't If yous could requite physicians early in their career, you know, less than seven years out, including residents but just a unmarried piece of advice. What would it be?

Francis Yoo 24:11
Wow.

Andrew Tisser 24:17
I'm hitting you with the difficult ones today.

Francis Yoo 24:24
Yeah so the way I would answer this is if I were to tell myself great weather yesterday, a year ago or five years ago is, don't be afraid to say no. or quit something or try something. If we simply stuck with knowing one thing, it'll just never know what else is out there. It won't discover that. That new pizzeria or that uh, that great deal, etc. Nosotros're only stuck doing the aforementioned matter. You may not even whether yous like it or non, if you don't try something else and say, Hey, y'all know what?

I'm going to try something else stay. And if something isn't working, don't be afraid to say, don't be afraid to say no. Now y'all have to accept the consequences. Yous're responsible for saying no. Just life is more than simply a predetermined path that other people make for y'all. In the end, what are people gonna say nigh you? When y'all're dead? You lot know, they're gonna say, hey, Dr. Francis, you lot was a great employee.

He did everything he was supposed to be in reality, he didn't actually enjoy his work or his life or his relationship was in shambles, etc. and kind of combining different things here, simply what I would say is, number i, learn how to say no and quit things. Number 2, effort Other new things. And number 3 is focus on things that are meaningful to you, as opposed to having other people dump their expectations and desires and wish lists upon you.

Andrew Tisser 26:20
Great, powerful. So you wrote the book. You are working on a second volume I hear. Yes. And what's that one about?

Francis Yoo 26:thirty
Yeah. So I, in that md Facebook groups about COVID and occasionally await into other non physician, Facebook groups on COVID. And a lot of the talk is about feet, fearfulness, uncertainty, grief loss, and simply a full modify from what used to exist the norm. And Something more than to exist said, about feet in times of uncertainty Likewise, let'due south get rid of it. allow'due south let'southward permit's manage up here or, or treat anxiety which which those are of import things.

But what I'm about is really transformation through the difficulties if we get through life, just avoiding things that are uncomfortable, or things that nosotros don't like, or, or just things that are things that we're not perfect in things that were not the all-time thing. You know what that means we'll never pick upwardly a musical musical instrument we'll never learn to bulldoze a car and things like that.

Similarly, in times of doubt, I believe that, aye, nosotros need to. We need coping strategies and we need to meet get therapy and things like that, only What the books about it's chosen COVID contemplation, it's really to claiming people to figure out why they do certain things. So the one of my favorite examples is the whole, the college students went to jump break, fifty-fifty though in that location was this instructions to stay habitation and, and there'southward a lot of power, a lot of powerful messages in that, why did they choose to become to leap break?

Why even knowing the issues and putting themselves and others and major merely they still went. But the other attribute of is, there are people that yell and criticize these students from going on spring break, just that also illustrates something about those people making those criticisms also. So our behaviors, our actions, our emotions, and our thoughts really illustrate a way for us to exist more aware of ourselves than for personal development.

So the volume is for the general public. It's non meant for For the full general public not targeted towards position specifically is to, is to challenge and encourage people to face their fears and look at us and opportunity in this COVID times to, to see what information technology's in themselves become aware of why they feel the way they practise, why they practise things, why they criticize others, why they do things that they know, they shouldn't be doing things like that. And these are all avenues to grow and to have personal evolution. So aye, and so that's what the book is about.

Andrew Tisser 29:38
Great and you are a physician motorcoach too.

Francis Yoo 29:44
So the the book I wrote first the dr. freedom book is it's it explains some of the bones ideas I accept of my coaching it's it'south to draw out and Direct people, not past what I'grand trying to tell them, but really what is their vision, their purpose and their mission in life. And that that is a tall order for especially for physicians.

So my coaching programme focuses on leading people from the inside out, and helping them figure out what it is that they want, number one, number two, to figure information technology out that we need help everyone needs assist, and how to get to where they want to be. And number 3 is just, sometimes we but need to take action and do the next thing. Then yes, so my coaching programme has a lot to do with the Yep, I don't know what more to say.

Andrew Tisser 30:45
Great. So if people are really into your bulletin and want to find out more about you, how can they notice you?

Francis Yoo thirty:53
Yeah, then there are a couple of means. [Encounter ABOVE] So, and the I also have a Facebook grouping. It's called doctor freedom, living your accurate doc life.

Andrew Tisser 31:29
Great. Yep. Everything will be in the bear witness notes for the listeners, Francis is has been a lot of fun. Thank you for coming on the show.

Francis Yoo 31:36
Oh, thanks then much. I'm very grateful for you having me.

Andrew Tisser 31:39
Oh, absolutely. Francis. Well, be safe out in that location. Take care. keep living your accurate life and nosotros'll talk presently.

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Source: https://www.andrewtisserdo.com/episode-16-living-your-authentic-physician-life-with-francis-yoo-do/

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